CORPORATIONS Are The Downfall of CAPITALISM

To take that one step further, if I may, Joanna, corporations are not the enemy. Corporations which have bought off politicians for favors are the enemy. If corporations had to exist solely in the capitalism arena and not in the political arena, there would be fewer "evil" corporations.

corporations are not the enemy.

Kjm, I stated the same thing; on this we agree but cronyism is the ruination of a true free enterprise system.

I apologize for a rehash of part of my whole post HERE, but I must concur with kjmirl by repeating a part of that comment as follows:

If these corporations were left to compete in a truly free and open market where market forces dictate fair competition among large and small companies, drive natural price controls via real supply and demand forces, truly compete for good labor and fair wages, and pressure from the market to maintain ethical business practices, there would not be the problems that are currently blamed solely on these companies. If they weren't allowed via closed door lobbying to effect political elections and curry favor in terms of subsidies and tax credits and other unfair advantages over their competiton granted by elected officials, these companies would be revered as the strong employers of millions of Americans that they are. If the Government did not tinker and meddle in the markets in which these companies operate and let true market forces control and constrain them, the problems we see today would not exist or would be significantly reduced. No more bubbles and busts, no more corporate bailouts, no more economic instability caused by excessive tinkering in the markets (especially the financial markets) by the government and special interests and their chosen friends in various industries. While the actions of some CEO's has been morally questionable at times, one must admit that it is when these companies curry favor from, and get in bed with the Government and legislators, that the feces hits the ventilator. It is the alliance that is evil, not the company itself.

Good point Owls, and that is where personal responsibility and proper use of one's free will comes into play. Perhaps we should not allow the "shield" of incorporation to eliminate the responsibility of individual people. Bailing out a corporation or bank with taxpayer money under the false pretense of "too big to fail" isn't my idea of a good place to start in terms of reinforcing the concept of personal responsibility. At the same time, perhaps attempting to use Government to shield the people from thier own poor decisions and improper choices does not advance the concept of personal responsibility either? Just some food for thought....

Ah, but how do you argue that the people who make up a corporation or a government should be held accountable for their actions/decisions, but not ALL people in general?

The only way that a corporation can become "too big to fail" is if the Government protects it from failure, or competition (including well before and up to its point of failure). In a truly free-market, the people have the choice as to whether they will buy a company's products or services and as such there is no coersion, but rather choice. When Government steps in and assists with elimination of choice, or competition, or rewards people and businesses for poor decisions, that is when control is removed from the consumer and the failure of such corporations becomes a forced burden on all, with no reprecussions for the ones who caused it as you rightly point out.

Freewill You made your point eloquently in my opinion. I have been asserting for a long time that the true evil is corporate interference and their unfair & imbalanced influence in politics and legislative government. This reality is an overwhelming case for demanding the "Public Financing of Elections" that would completely take moneyed interests completely out of the picture and allow our government and its leaders to govern efficiently and solely in the nations interest without being encumbered by loyalties only to the wealthy few that fund their campaigns. To me, the overreaching power of corporate America this is the crux and the result of the decades of servitude to a corporate monopoly in control of our politicians. The sooner we the people insist that Public Financing of Elections is the only reasonable method of running this country the better off we all will be.

The notion that the corporate US operates within a "Free market System" is incorrect and in fact a lie. Corporations do not function in a "Free Market" and it has over time (with the cooperation of government politicians) subverted it into a "Gamed market" that both manipulates the market and financially coerces government for pure greed and that is indeed evil. It's way beyond excuses not to put an end to this madness before the US is indeed destroyed by it. Ask yourself this.. "Has America been made better by the existence of this type of direct corporate participation in Government" ? Does corporate influence in government work result in any true benefit for you or me ? Given the US historical context of the many corporate attempts to unfairly influence government policy solely for their benefit at the expense of the American public, can you really believe that they care about anyone's needs other than their own ? The fact that both major political parties has grown so willingly dependent on this system of the corporate seizure of power should signal to all Americans that the time has come to demand that this type of government is absolutely not in the nations best interest. The fact that the Tea Party and the GOP primarily encourage the ongoing support of it makes them wholly complicit in promoting the inevitable collapse of this nation and an end to America as it was envisioned by the Founding Fathers intentions to form a more perfect Union. An apt definition is....Corporate Interests + State Interests = Fascism, and that is precisely where we're headed.

I am not sure where you get the impression that I don't believe that all people in general should be held accountable for their actions/decisions.

Owls, I did not mean with my remarks to infer what you believe one way or the other. In retrospect, I should have used the word "one" in my first sentence rather than "you". My apologies. I was simply trying to make an obervation with respect to self-control and personal responsibility as being an expectation that should be applied equally to all people regardless of their station. I agree with the bulk of your statements above my friend, and I think it is good that this discussion is moving toward what it is that we think we might do about this situation.

I might not get a chance to get back here tonight, but as always I look forward to some great discussions with you my friend. Take care.

@ Avalon
@ John

The current system is meant to purge those that have no conscience. If you want to know the multitude of systems read history, before monetary system with the monetary system and what have you. Multi-monetary systems where each mark represents a facet of society towards infrastructure or consumption of ones collected actions.

Nor am I going to thwart my self into a society that forces me to submit to the iron clad of the banking industry and the money changers and Goyien. Perhaps you best just serve them to capitalize on foreign countries for oil. American dream is a lie, the founding fathers would never have created a system of false hope and disparity, unlike the money changers from Europe and the Asiatic regions. Continue to learn and indoctrinate yourself into the lie, really think 56 million of fabricated assets to a entertainer that will never build create of innovate but towards chaos is worth anything. Its intentional dumbingdown of the society to create a new fascist regime. Believe your tyranny, believe that you need to get loans for school, believe all the non sense you want, you are worthless in a monetary mindset. Your conscience grid is chained from things.

Mental architecture is important, but if I am fluent in understanding nature I can use it to my advantage and no one is the wiser. The rest are just feral monsters creatures worthless, un illuminated. For instance if you take all female pot plants and put the males in another room. The females will get aggressive, for the lack of males and will produce an enormous amount of THC to try and attract a male. The same is if there are more males. If you understand this, then you can create a society where the females are generally horny all the time, like some deranged creature. This dark magic or science allows one in control of the system to have great fun at the expense of females and males. Deeper understanding of knowledge of nature is watching the hilarity of it all but as much as the one will take from the system to fill its hunger and need at no point would the female or male breed with a lesser minded individual because un illuminated people are disgusting creatures that follow around like helpless puppies not knowing what they do. These creatures are so stupid you can get them to destroy the very things that protect and help them. Making women and men look like an idiot in everything they do. It is an easy way to destroy a country by manipulating the genders being born, into mental inequity. Lesser minds are controlled by those that know and those that don't know. I personally do not care what system is created as long as it adheres to simple laws and punishes them accordingly. This mental architecture of manipulation goes into deeper roots and stems into others interest groups such as propaganda and indoctrination as other useful tools for mental coercion. The Ten Commandments are a simple rule. Do not kill, do not steal, do not lie. Then additional ones are master your mind and love you as I have loved you, few more unlisted here though. If you really loved and understood (doubling meaning the Black’s law dictionary) each other none of this would happen. Yet superior mindset and shadow is enveloped over the minds of many, blocking the conscience grid from evolving into a stable platform because of its controlled factors. If nothing was ever written tell me of your system, tell me who is most high? Tell me what prophecy would come true, tell me who is immoral, tell me what ego you have without words. If nothing existed as before and nothing persists then what are the truths in front of us but the exploration and study of nature itself. In this we control evolution because we understand the mind and in this you will not inherit heaven for you do not understand nature because you do not listen. The current system is to be purged. Not because of evil or good because of the lack of understanding, and self control of the mindset; Danger to the grid as a whole.

Idea or non-entity has no value on life, therefore it is all destructive if not of awareness attuned to the blocks that move and consume which is the sole identity be an entity or acting-idea or face of an individual, corporate name is a fancy way of shuffling off responsibility with no accountability. It is called auto pilot destruction for profits. A strange malformed disease that situates itself in the hippocampus. All entities that parade around a facade of good, without the penalty to being aware of its actions are duly creating chaos and destruction of all things to the nature of consumption and neglect of need. In doing so creates fabricated illusion of power and a society of tyranny( structured of poverty and wealth essential) negating a true society based on knowledge and the immaterial. In this pretence all businesses created regardless of how good are an enemy to any society wishing to removes its chains and have freedom to expand their conscience mind. Submissive weasels of cattle believe such nonsense to a point of complete neglect of morality to such a substance ie money that openly changes the conscience mind. Do not eat from the tree of good and evil but adhere to simple laws that were given, to live without chaos, or war but of mindfulness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucawazomgGA&feature=fvwrel

Like these things that popup silly racial antics of superiority put into the mind of a fractured insecure little man, of their actions weigh heavily on good people just trying to make a living that used to actually follow god’s word; when one takes the labours and works of others aggressively.

There is an infinite amount of systems that can be created. Currently evil plan is to scrub the monotheistic and western religions from the Earth. Funny what happens when you share knowledge of nature with other nations and it gives the falsehood of power through the knowledge taken by others, such as. Eighty thousand plus hacks and growing a year are done against the US from china every year. To this America will most likely either exterminate China or destroy it if it does not forgive its debt, simply because its stealing knowledge and is an almost unforgivable act and it is noted as an act of war. Whereas the act of borrowing is not as it is in good honesty, but if you dare to steal, what one had done honestly in front of you behind the scenes; then do not talk about the plank in Americas eye for your speck is so filled with timber you(China) have meaningless words as a nation until you remove them all from your eye. Like wise to any nation to judge each other based on morality, speak not of each other until one can cure their own blindness, then maybe one can see and heal another.

I doubt anyone would understand this because the world is asleep. The world forgets about books... forgets to read, forgets to learn.

If you want to know what I think about this tiny minded article about corporations, you must expand your awareness that it is not about these entities. I know nothing... I only watch this idiocy and know I cannot partake in a world of mindless morons scathing about. Yet like some disease they do not hold back to take ones words and apply them. Strange indeed.

No I don't not live on this Earth or world for, it should all be destroyed and remade again. Perhaps intelligent beings can evolve from this planet with notion of conscience for each other and the apt ability to study nature. Oh wait these were old laws given... Listen if you know truth and are a pillar you can twist words and reveal liars. Then I am nothing and I know nothing so don't read or listen to my words that have no sense to anything.

AT&T (controls most forms of communications); Koch Industries (massive chemical waste into the air and the corporate farms have destroyed private farming); Monsanto (same as Koch Ind.); British Patroleum; Halliburton; Pfizer; Merk; GE; McDonalds...

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Ok I see that. I see Big Pharma as your money or your life and the same for most medical services.

I actually see the copay for medicines as about what they should cost and all the rest as just gross amounts money in the pocket of big Pharma. But I don't see corporations as the enemy. I see unethical and dishonest people running them as the problem.

I doubt that we agree on a lot of things because I don't think that corporations and bad for the world. They cause things to happen that individuals could never do on their own. So big isn't necessarily bad.

What about the individual need for profit? Is that profit different? Most corporations pay taxes and then the recipient of the dividends pays income taxes on the profit again. Corporations also pay property tax, sales tax, sociall security tax, road tax and on and on.

Well even an individual who owns and operates a farm for example has a tax service that helps him maximise his income by taking advantage of the same tax laws that corporations take advantage of. They are just smaller and you don't have access to their tax records. Corporations just do in on a larger scale in one place so it's easier to put a target on them than 5000 farmers or hardware store owners.

That is exactly the problem. Every corporation or mom/pop small business owner that files taxes or schedule C has a radar on them. To assume small business owners are little and no one pays attention to them is wrong. Try missing a 1/4rly installment and you'll see what I mean. A small business will never be allowed the level of tax deductions or employment incentives that a corporation gets. They pay out a percentage of what they receive along with their overhead. A majority of the time that will take at least 60% of what they bring in...depending on their payroll or replacement of broken equipment it could be more. Sometimes your employes will have a check and you won't. Our real problem is the misconception that small business is $5 million bottom dollar income. Maybe someone would like to have a nice income and employ just a few people and are not seeking the bigger headaches of a large corporation. It is called self-employment. The way the system is set up, due to the fact they are not large enough, it is a 50/50 gamble on survival. When did the american dream become about owning a large corporation instead of "making a good living". I never opened my business with the thought of becoming rich. I just wanted to work doing what I love to do.

He was very wise to know the dangers...

A good example is "Donald Trump". Look how many times this man hid behind bankruptcy laws (4) and to the tunes of how many million. You can bet had he been held accountable the first time it would have been much different I am sure. Did it stop him from opening another business or from any new ventures? No. The american people are held accountable by foreclosure, seized bank accounts, reposession, courts and judgments. Even if the average person files bankruptcy their tax returns are seized, if they short sale a house they are 1099 the difference at the end of the year. My thoughts are..what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The liable money amount involved in white collar crime is well past the liability of any of our social programs. Its just most is unreported.