Wednesday Weirdness --- Liberals & Conservatives Laughably Stupider Than OWS

But the "Masters" control the "Puppets" that control "us".

I'd say the "Puppets" need to be put in their places, and quick!

Why not fight this government by business problem from both ends?

Honesty ?

I need business to keep my business running. I don't need government to give me what "I NEED", WORK !

If government would have done their job in the first place, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Simply put, the BP disaster and Madoff disaster should have told everyone, "Government isn't doing their job". They're the biggest business crooks we have.

"Here, here's a few million to look the other way Mr. Politician/Mr. Inspector/Mr. Oversight person". AND THEY TAKE IT !

If government would have done their job in the first place, we wouldn't be in this mess.

you're blaming the government for the actions of business leaders.

I thought they could "regulate themselves" as we have been told over and over? they cannot.

BP didnt even try to conform and the Republicans had been in charge for a decade NOT enforcing regulations and trying to get rid of EPA regulations.

It doesnt get any more hypocritical then damning the very government that helps others and then expecting them to be there when you need them

What happened to personal responsibility?

the GOP doesnt want regulations NOW ....why not? I thought they said they tried so hard to get them in but Barney Frank single-handedly stopped them?

sorry for anyone who claims this isnt about left and right. it most certainly is where our politicians and Faux News are concerned.

So Chuck you side with the media and the politicians??

We are claiming it does not have to be about left and right. But hey if you wish to let others decide for you good luck.

Are you getting as much business as you need?

To pay the bills, nothing more. The clients that are getting things up and running, are running to Canadian Banks for loans to get moving.

Nothing here is working, but it sure has cost this country a bunch. When you bailout companies, with no stipulations, as Dodd pulled stipulations out during Obama's bailout bill, there is no incentive to change.

When you give, give, give, no one, cares, cares, cares, when people get pissed at you. You got yours and government approved it.

Canadian Banks...hehehe you mean banks in Canada don't you Greg?

What tesla ??? LOL!

I was channeling my daughter. "Where does Canadian bacon come from" = Canadia ! :D

Well, if I had to get money from a "BANK IN CANADA", :), instead of here, I'd be peeved a bit, but since I need the work and the money from the business's that are getting the money from the "BANKS IN CANADA", I don't ask questions.

Now the Banks in the "United States" has shut off my line of credit, as has happened to my clients that are going to Canada for the money, and that pissed me off. Took a long time to get them to refinance it for free, since I hadn't used more than 1/4 of it before they closed use of it. I still blame government bank bailouts for the growing arrogance of the banks. They got their money and now they could care less, but, I go back to "Government Allowed this to happen". Would the banks be as arrogant, if they had to dig themselves out of their own mess, or would they be more friendly ?

A question we'll never know the answer too.

I need business to keep my business running. I don't need government to give me what "I NEED", WORK !

That is exactly the mentality that got us into this mess and why so many defend these 1%'ers. They have you behind a barrel and it's time to show them that they need us as much as we need them. They have all the power because, like you said, you are afraid of them.

This entire country is walking around on eggshells for the top 1%, out of fear. What exactly are they going to do if their tax rate goes up 3.4% or call for more regulation? The answer is, pay the 3.4% and regulate.

They are bullies on the playground. Time to call their bluff.

Agreed. The governemnt is afraid of Big Businees also but for different reasons, elections.

I am blaming big business for the actions of government. Of course the press, not just Fox, and the politicians want this to be a left/ right thing anything to perpetrate the survival of the establishment.

I agree with that. ....especially the entire media (but Fox has been at it more intensely)

Remember there are also those that want a two party system because they firmly believe there must be two sides to everything regardless of logic and common sense.

I'm just saying the damage has been done.

Today's GOP and T party are firm evidence of that.

Can you show me the same kind of deceitful efforts from the Democrats?

I can say they are weak and that a few have gone along with this Kabuki theater the GOP has been putting on. but they havent sunk as low as the GOP legislators.

So idea that starting a new with all new faces who will also hide behind kind , caring faces isnt all that appealing to me.

I like Pelosi, I liked Greyson, Reid's a puss, but at least he's not intentionally lying to the public and hasnt been a party to holding unemployed hostage or the nations credit hostage. That was all GOP. Show me where the Dems have done the same.

I want only to get those out who really have been nothing but problems like McConnell, Boehner, Cantor, Ryan or Lieberman.

So, it is left and right because THEY refuse to see it any different..and there's not a thing anyone can do to change that. i they want to be your enemy , they will be.

But I do agree that we should be doing everything we can to build and maintain a healthy economy together as a country.

How do you unbrainwash a group of people who firmly believe whatever they are told by those that want to keep the left/right divide?

How do you get someone to acknowledge the facts and quit pressing the party line?

They have you behind a barrel and it's time to show them that they need us as much as we need them. They have all the power because, like you said, you are afraid of them.

The guys I deal with aren't 1 percenters. More 40 and 50 percenters. The ones I deal with are having problems with the Banks in the U.S. loaning them money or re-opening their lines of credit they had for years.

Gets right down to the same ol' problem. Banks and government. Banks did what government wanted and government does what banks want. I don't want wallstreet shut down. My wife and i have our retirement there. :)

The ones I deal with are having problems with the Banks in the U.S. loaning them money or re-opening their lines of credit they had for years

And those people are the 1%'ers. They do not have to loan money because the government did not make that a part of the conditions with the bail-out. I have the same problem. We are all being held hostage by the 1%'ers and I am tired of it. Worse, I am tired of people defending them. We need to stop rewarding bad behavior.

I don't want wallstreet shut down. My wife and i have our retirement there. :)

And that is how they scare you into cooperation. Do you really think if they were required to loan money, as they should have been with the bail-out, they would have up and left the country with your money? Really? No, they would have lent money and we would not be in the recession we are in now. Your business would be better off with the line of credit it needs, mine would be better off with the line of credit I need (10's of thousands more just like us) and our economy would be recovering. And guess what, they would be better off too.

They know how to lend money and make a profit, they just don't have to and are making billions from our bail-out money siiting in their savings accounts.

Your retirement might be in jeopardy, in the short run, but in the long run it will be fine. You have short run dangers regardless because of the volitlity of our economy. We may as well take the lumps that need to be taken and have a brighter, more secure future and not be victims to these Capone-like thugs.

If I still had my line of credit to work with, I'd be flying high, well, pretty high.

To me, and this is just me, getting the puppets to stop bending over for the banks, and like the commercial says, "Just say No", it would be harder for banks to do what they do. Regulation changes is what is needed. Weed out the garbage regs and put in some regs that actually can be watched and have some kick to them. I don't think government can keep up with all the regs they pass. Its an oversight problem for me.

And if your gonna have a limiting condition in the bailout, then you remove it, your a pisswad. Guess who did that.

I don't think government can keep up with all the regs they pass. Its an oversight problem for me.

The new regulations that were passed after the financial crisis still have not been put into effect, fully. Not that it would matter much, they were so watered down in order to get passed, they would have little effect left anyway.

getting the puppets to stop bending over for the banks

Agreed.

Check out this story that no one is paying attention to. Including the OWS'ers.

Holy Crap! Can I have 1/4 of that pension?

Loved the comment by the Rep. - "Even by our standards in Illinois". Hahaha ! Wonder what their standards are.

Half a million a year...for the rest of his life.

And they wonder why Illinois is broke.

and yet, no one is commenting on it, the peole who are protesting greed, graft and corruption are ignoring it becuase their union overlords will be unhappy if they say anything out loud about it. When they try to hold everyone to the same standard, then I'll be interested in hearing what they have to say, until them, I'm happy to serve them a nice steaming hot cup of Shut the @!$%# up.

I dunno, Owls...this is the way I see it. The government greases the palms of big business, big business contributes to their coffers...and the cycle continues and continues...one threatens the other, and the other then threatens back...all the while the bribes and paybacks are going on, and the taxpayers are left out in the cold PAYING for all this back room chicanery - and THAT needs to STOP!

Sadly, I haven't seen many sensible ones at these occupy events. They are protesting our very system of economics - capitalism. The OWS say they are anticapitalist, their signs are for the most part, anti capitalist. Perhaps that is why John Adams said the following in a warning:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other".

As we can attest to just by this debate alone, our country has moved from its moorings as a morally responsible nation...and we are finding out how true his words were - and that isn't even getting into the religious part of the debate.

I like the helplessness being conveyed by some of the people here (sarcasm). Greg is stating that these people are in the wrong places, Owl is contending that they should be hitting the issue on all sides... and while I don't think anybody disagrees with hitting the issue from all sides there is seemingly a misstep in the logic... or rather there is the underlying theme of helplessness in regards to these people and businesses.

For starters... politicians can say no to bribes, and lobbyists. Nobody told Obama he had to take all those donations from Wall Street for his 2008 campaign... or today, but he did. So I guess if you look at only this aspect you then would decide it is Wall Street that must be stopped! ... what an irresponsible blanket you've wrapped around your elected representatives.

And second... consumers, the shoppers, the guys protesting... nobody says you have to go to the big bad evil corporation's store and buy their product. But you did. So how exactly is it the big bad corporation's fault that you are buying their product... supporting their unfair wage system... providing CEOs with bonuses... etc?

Basically... OWS is protesting the wrong place. The only body between government and corporations that are responsible... culpable for corruption and bad deeds is the government. Insisting that Wall Street... or businesses... or corporations be fair and nice and then expecting them to force the businesses to do just that is not American. How could it be? In a country where you are suppose to be able to dream, pursue, and create as you see fit... how is what this promoting liberty? I know it's hard, but the truth often is... the greed of the consumer... you and me... demanding cheaper products in the stores is what drives the greed of businesses... to slash wages, to become more creative with materials and labor costs. You buy the product... and that's all the business cares about. Bad mouth them till you're blue in the face... but what is a business like Apple going to care when you're walking around with an iPhone in your pocket, an iPod playing in your ears, and an iPad surfing the internet while protesting corporations.

Makes complete sense.

OV, I am keeping an open mind, but these people are protesting against wrong, but only the wrong they are steered to instead of actually protesting all those things that are wrong. Did you read the story? One guy had a $15K per year job that he hasn't worked at in years and he will now receive a $60K per annum retirement. Where can I sign up? Do I just need to move to Chicago become a good union loving Democrat to get this kind of largess? Where does this money come from? Ultimately the public coffers. And he is not the only one-just one of the smaller examples in that area.

Protest greed and corruption! Great. I'm there. Selective contempt? Count me out. If someone or some group wants to protest and wants credibility, they need to live by their values all the time, not just part of the time.

I commented on it Spike. Page Nine top of page.

I understand Greg, what one needs to look at is big business, the banks ARE the government. You go and look at the government officials in Treasury, Cabinet, Dept. of Agriculture, Dept. of State, FEMA, check their employment histories. And those that are not connected are lawyers for same.

The banks did not demand a bailout, they did not need to. They simply paid themselves out of the treasury to cover for their own stupid mistakes and greed. When I say that government has been bought and paid for that is exactly what I mean. The major banks and lenders are all owned by the same groups the world round. My guess would be that having y'all go to Canada is way for them to boost profits from those loans.

tesla, I just looked on the story-there's only 6 comments on it-all made by Kaz and I. Different seed?

I commented on the MSNBC thread Spike. Union guy get half million a year pension.

Hmmm. Didn't see a separate one-I'll have to look harder. I'm looking for that $15K a year job that pays $60K per annum in retirement. I'm not all THAT greedy.

Well Owl, you ask if I can sit down and list the changes that need to be made in this Country. Yep. I can come up with a fairly comprehensive list (in generalities) Can I know where to start? Yep. I'd start with the most important issue - corporate/union money in campaigns. Have I said anything stupid? Of course I have. At one point I supported the Republicans. Of course the press picks loonies to interview for ratings.

Let me ask you something, Owl - these people who got themselves $50-$100K in debt with student loans - where did they think they were going to get jobs? Those big bad Wall Street companies, perhaps? WTF!! Hypocrisy at it's finest! And as far as those loans being paid back - my brother in law is a perfect example - spent $50K on ART SCHOOL 18 years ago, defaulted on the debt and now his $9000 a year tax refund (for being underemployed) is going straight to his debt. So in effect, the government is paying back the government. I'll take it however I can get it.

The usefulness of this movement depends solely on targeting the problem, not just complaining about it.

You say we set the bad example. Where did it start? I submit that it began with FDR - who TOLD Americans that the government would provide - in good times and bad. THAT is when the "me me me" mantra began. We set aside the principles on which this country was founded and embraced the socialistic policies that said the government would take care of "me me me".

And the more people who actually enrolled in those disincentive programs, the less people there were chasing the "American Dream". After all, why work 60 hours a week for minimum wage when you can work 20 hours, get food stamps, and section 8 housing, and tax refunds and make the same basic living?

Our government programs have discouraged movement into the "middle class". I think it's a classic chicken/egg question we have here. Is there no middle class because the 1% makes all the money, or is there a 1% because they choose to work harder, longer and are more motivated - leaving people to fall into the entitlement mentality.

So how are we supposed to set a good example when the protestors have rejected that notion in favor of "gimme gimme gimme?"

. I do agree that this movement is an Obama brainchild.

Thats just wishful thinking .

There is no evidence that shows that to be true. but I'm getting accustomed to the need for matching conspiracies ( the right wing has fox news and Kochs to fund the T Party. the left supposedly has Soros and MSNBC playing the same role. I guess some people think it somehow justifies their actions, even when the accusation isnt true.

Once the unions move in on this it will no longer be a "peaceful" protest. I'm really starting to smell a rat here, Owls...

well if we have but two choices - police state or anarchy - i must choose anarchy

The rat you smell is the body of this whole New World Order movement. Just how secure are our freedoms?I have been saying ever since I came on the Vine that martial law and suspended elections were on the horizon.

I don't disagree with this, I have thought all along that it might come to that... And this turmoil will play right into his hands. Crap, even the NC governor suggested such a few weeks ago. Obama foments class warfare, and as far as the unrest, he is happy to have it - "never let a good crisis go to waste".

Watch what Hugo Chavez does- Obama follows in his footsteps where he can.

Been predicting it myself since the 80's.

Often, would be the word you are looking for hoss. I have just followed the policy trends to see where they would lead and it is a fairly easy thing to do. Government policy has been to create an insurmountable divide between that 1% and the rest, put food, housing, and medical care out of reach. Reduce wages to the point where you are working for food. It serves several goals:

1) A reduction in excess population, through attrition.

2) Create civil unrest allowing the government to declare a state of emergency.

3) With that declaration allow the government to introduce foriegn troops onto US soil.

4) Allow the government behind that circus in Washington to carry out their goal of a single world government whose population is under their complete control.

Unified government control has been there goal all along, but they know Americans would be dead set against it. So we have to be led down a path to it.

It is a little more complicated than that of course but I believe that is what is coming and that soon. One of the reasons I advocate not voting at all, every one of us staying home for one national election. I think it would @!$%# up their time table and force their hand. Now I must needs adjust my tinfoil hat the rays will be coming from the east after 1pm.

Watch the American socialist party AND the worldwide socialists. They've been hard at work soliciting membership at the Occupy movement locations - passing out pamphlets, and spreading the word about socialism. I did an article about it just now. SCARY stuff!

thanks, Owl. I'd never link without your permission, you know, but it seems that we are steamrolling toward something appalling.

It is not stupidity Fish, IMSHO, it is a case of looking at what one has and what one stands to lose, if you decide to take a stand. Letter writing, round file. E-Mails, delete button. Voting, for whom, the same cookie cutter candidates we have had for the last 50 years? To protest this juggernaught one would have to put a lot on hold to make a difference. But that is just me.

I want to protest. I want to protest our Government, the real cause of the problem. I have no desire to protest the symptom of bad governing. Let's roll up the sleeves and protest the source loud and clear. A movement unwilling to elect the type of man or woman that plays with lobbyists or paves legislation that allow our corporations to drive in the express lane.

I think we are facing a choice as citizens once again. Time to quit playing my team your team and realize that the individuals whom we have all been pandering for(for free I might add) are not on OUR Team. I have always said that we, left and right and center, all need the others to keep us from our excesses. Right now we have an opportunity to walk off this silly playing field, and we don't have to sing Kumby Ya or join hands or even like each other, we just have to work together long enough to regain what we have lost. And that is control of our destiny as a country and as a people.

If our politicians had integrity and stopped lobbyists from writing our laws for the companies they represent, we would not be in this position. If our fed didn't bailout companies based on political favoritism, capitalism would correct itself. The fed controls the fate of the middle class. Adjusting the value of our money to accommodate industry. It is the politician and the Government that i blame.

Bad Fish - I don't think it's the politicians who are guilty. I think it is their STAFFERS. They are the ones who meet with the lobbyists and they are the ones who write the laws. Maybe we should start with a wholesale clearance of all those people who are TRULY the Washington "insiders".

It is time for the rise of the 3rd party. Join me in voting for real change!

Domination by big business is not a symptom of bad government, it is the cause of bad government

Yep!

If our fed didn't bailout companies based on political favoritism, capitalism would correct itself.

and at what cost? thats the problem. Prove its political favoritism rather than just throwing out more accusations.

The wealthy play with billions, create a bubble which crashes and the middle class are the ones holding the bag.

so you think it's right to allow their f*ck ups screw the rest of us?

Without that bailout those banks close with our money in them. their was a run on WaMu remember ? imagine that all across the country..and when no one has money that means the debts they paid or should be paying with the money they thought they had wont be paid and so on and so on and so on.

The problem is Bush and Paulson handed it to them with no strings attached.

I am glad GM was bailed out because it saved millions of jobs ,the loss of which would have surely taken us down a far darker path.

NONE of those people had a thing to to wit derivatives trading and overvaluing mortgages and the car companies had nothing to do with crashing the credit markets.

Politics just does not breed honesty. We make jokes about it, but it is no joke.

Part of the protection that big business has is that they have been writing the laws they aren't breaking.

An extremely valid point sir. Never the less, it is currently legal. My hope is that they re-direct their attention to "Occupy DC Ethics". Which is a much larger conversation, and certainly will require a tad bit more focus and frankly, a little less lawlessness.

They know that things aren't right and need to be changed but they don't have the life experience to understand what and how to make these changes. They need guidance, are we going to leave that guidance to union organizers and other ultra-left wing groups?

I agree with you there, Owls...and if we do allow these kids to hear only one perspective, we will deserve what we get. But who can we get to talk to them?

Who can talk to them? Nobody. They have been brainwashed by 14-18 years of liberal public school rhetoric. They are unable to think for themselves. They are unable to put together cohesive, coherent ideas. They are unable to focus on issues and they are completely incapable of coming up with solutions. They are fodder for the socialist agenda. This movement WILL be taken over by the American Socialist party - just as the TEA Party movement was hijacked by the Republicans.