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OWLSVIEW

Don Quixote
Articles Posted: 55  Links Seeded: 0
Member Since: 8/2010  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

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Shootings Gun Laws Police State --An Owl's View of Arizona

Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:49 PM EST
politics, constitution, police-guns-government-arizona-u-s-opinion
By owlsview
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I just came from this MSNBC article. Between the usual juvenile nonsenses are several interesting and insightful comments worth reading if you have the time. Just be sure and get back over here.

 

WE ARE THE WILD WEST AND PROUD OF IT!!

Let me begin by making a very important distinction. In Arizona police departments and Sheriff"s other than both being law enforcement agencies bear very little in common. I am not saying that all of our sheriff  departments are free of the shoot first mentality, what I am saying is that they are still the most trustworthy we have. For one very simple reason. Police chiefs are "hired by the government" while "sheriffs are elected by the people".

This is actually a good time to be living in Arizona if you are an American. Okay I'll pause and let many of you wipe off your screens and keyboards now.

We are an exceptionally young state, not just because we didn't sign on until a hundred years ago but also because we didn't get hit with the development of the 20th century until sometime in the 70"s, before that newcomers were primarily comprised of old timers wanting to get away from the snow and the misery of their rheumatism.

Harsh! You bet it's harsh out here. If it wasn't so pretty one might say that this chunk of terrain is the devil's doing. Heck, in the middle of July you can't even land on top of a telephone pole without flapping your wings to cool it off first. You can always tell the newcomers by the way they always say ouch! everytime they open a car door.

It didn't use to matter if you were a city boy or an open-range kind of guy, if you were going to cut it out here you had to have a certain kind of toughness and discipline. This is not a good place for the meek to try and inherit. Why in tarnation we and the Mexicans didn't just let the Indians keep it in the first place I'll never understand. Stupid conquistadors anyway, nothing but a bunch of ultra-right wing terrorists working for the church anyway. Then along came technology, worse day for this state was when they started putting air conditioning in cars. Instead of being confined to their homes now the sissy-folk were able to get out and start meddling with all kinds of things, especially our freedoms.

Now the increase in population hasn't been all bad, since the advent of corporate farming and corporate ranching has had the assistance of the Feds all the old family farms and ranches are disappearing out here just like back in the mid-west and we needed to find knew ways to sustain ourselves. With all of the static that these easterners brought with them we were forced to trade in our stetsons for tin hats.In this climate nobody wants to be a metal-head by choice.

Our age gives us an advantage especially over the east and the south. The biggest advantage is that we haven't had near as many years of being conditioned to blindly believing that if it wears a badge it must be good. Instead of asking how high when when Washington says jump we ask why. Leaping before you look is a great way to end up in an old mineshaft around these parts. Which is why Obama has declared war on the State of Arizona. Oh, I know he hasn't said those exact words, it is just another one of his lies, just this one happens to be by omission.

 

FASCISM AND SOCIALISM -- TWO PATHS TO THE SAME DESTINATION

The further ones leans to the left and the further one leans to the right the closer they both come to living in a police state. Even though for several years our lifestyles were more libertarian in nature out of need, it is honest to say that we have been an extreme right leaning region for years. We've been working on that, but don't think we are just going to all of a sudden jump as far to the left as the liberals and so-called progressives want us to. We don't mind giving a person a hand up, used to call it a "stake", but we don't cotton to having to feed a bunch of freeloaders and making sure they have a nice comfortable bed to get tucked into every night. 

Most of you other states are handicapped by years of slowly letting your freedoms erode. You have gotten used to giving them up one at a time. Out here  the last twenty to thirty years have been like a forced abortion of our rights, it is fresh in our minds. We haven't had generations of families to absorb the changes in this country, those of us that saw the beginning of it here in Arizona are still around to see how far it has gone.

 

-----------------------------------------JUST WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT GUN CONTROL LAWS-----------------------------------

This goes for some of you "Libertarians" too. It is rare, especially here on the Vine that you hear a word of truth as to the real reason the writers of the Constitution had gun rights so high on their list of freedoms. 

To begin with, consider the environment they lived in back then, you know the 1700s, especially the poor people. Having one or more guns in the house was commonplace, no big deal, heck not having a gun usually meant you weren't putting any meat on your table either. So what was the big deal?

Well it seems like the Brits had a bit of a habit of knocking on your door or accosting you on the street and at gunpoint inform you that you had just been conscripted into his majesties service. Or, also at gunpoint that certain of your goods were for forfeit to the service of his majesty. Or, again at gunpoint tell you that you would provide living quarters and meals for a member of his majesties court usually military. Colonists didn't like this and complained. With his usual pomp his royal majesty proceeded to have his soldiers collect the rifles of the populace and raid and confiscate any store of arms, powder or shot.

By golly, one of them Danial Boone types slapped himself upside the head. Seems he had one of those epiphany type things. This behavior by the government is exactly why his daddy crossed the ocean in the first place. So he got riled up and vowing that he would never allow another government to push him around at gunpoint again he went out and kicked a whole passel of royal rear-ends.

Crime control was in their thinking, but it was a very small part of the agenda, the main focus of the agenda of the 2nd Amendment was to protect the citizenry from being dis-armed and rendered defenseless against an oppressive government. They did have an eye on the future. They knew that no government ever achieves protection nor is safe from corruption. They  also knew, firsthand, that an unarmed citizenry is the most vulnerable. The crime control argument is nothing more than another government ploy to get people to disarm themselves and leave everything to the "government", an entity which has proven itself to be the least trustworthy of all for at least the last fifty years. Jumpin Jehoshaphats, why they would rather sell guns to the Mexican cartels than let an American citizen carry one.

 

_______________________________SO WHAT MAKES ARIZONA A GOOD PLACE FOR AMERICANS--------------------------

 

It was a long debate, but one hundred years ago we signed a document that we believed we could live with and have for the last hundred years. We are now engaged in a struggle to be able to live under that same document for a few hundred more years. We are standing up, rising up if you like. This is not an uprising against the government, this is an uprising for the Constitution. The same Constitution of the United States that all of you 49 other states signed also. Don't know about all of you, but ideologies weren't the basis of our decision to join the Union. It was the guaranteed freedoms.

 

Late Friday afternoon. Great time to post. Really. Gives the night and evening visitors a chance to get first crack at something and the dedicated weekenders some fresh meat.

Just remember, it is technologies fault that Arizona has turned into a thorn in Washington's side. Don't blame Obama. Blame air-conditioning.

 

 

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  • Public Discussion (31)
owlsview

I can see where this article topic can be a bit of a roamer. If in my the "authors" judgment you roam to far, I will tell you so publicly before deleting you. As usual I prefer to leave violation reporting to the readers, but if you don't abide by the COH I will do as I am required.

Enjoy, hash it out for awhile, I will be back soon.

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:54 PM EST
DS12

The biggest advantage is that we haven't had near as many years of being conditioned to blindly believing that if it wears a badge it must be good

LOL considering you AZ has Sheriff joe.

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:11 PM EST
owlsview

Everybody loves to pick on Arpaio. Do you know why ? Consider this. Bad cops who don't do their jobs hate good cops that do.

I will say that Arpaio has now gotten to old to handle such a large department, but when you look at his overall service it is easy to see why we keep re-electing him despite all of the vomit from Washington and the media about him. The most significant factor is that he has been there for us when we needed him while the Feds looked the other way and ignored their duty of enforcing the laws of this nation.

  • 9 votes
#2.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:58 PM EST
DS12

I understand why they pick on Sheriff joe....He has used his position of power against people that oppose him ie. false charges (along with his pal Thomas). Sorry I would put Joe in the bad cop category.

Sheriff Joe has used the media to build up his ego to his followers acceptance. They keep reelecting him because the fail to see through his bluster and BS.

  • 5 votes
#2.2 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:10 PM EST
owlsview

Yeah, I know we are just a bunch of stupid hicks. We feel the same way about Obama, but neither of them are the topic of this conversation. Steer closer to gun control, the Constitution, the loss of freedoms the issues and away from badmouthing individuals. No one person's presence or absence is the cause of, nor the cure for, the problems this state and this nation faces.

  • 8 votes
#2.3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:27 PM EST
DS12

Steer closer to gun control, the Constitution, the loss of freedoms the issues

How have Arizonians lost any of these rights? AS I see it this is a talking point of the extremists who repeat the message over and over.

and away from badmouthing individuals

Well it is early on your seed but I will watch to see where you are headed with this.

Explain from your point of view the statement "Take my Country Back"? Just Curious.

  • 4 votes
#2.4 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:41 PM EST
owlsview

I don't believe I have ever used the statement, "Take my country back" and I would need to know the context that whoever has used it was using it in to have a viewpoint. However, in general I don't think my country has been lost to anybody in particular or group that we need to take it back from.

Government has strayed way off of the path, but the form of government itself is just fine, we need to "take back" a lot of the people we currently have in government right now and replace them with those who are more dedicated to their country than their pocket books.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity on where I stand. It isn't any of us that have lost our country, the problems lie in the fact that for too long the government lost the attention of the public.

  • 8 votes
#2.5 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:36 PM EST
AZPADDY

owlsview

As a third generation Arizonan, you article caught my interest. The idea that people in Az are any tougher, or more adept at living in warmer climes is discounted by the popularity of places like Sun City, Leisure World, Sun Lakes, etc. etc. The immigrants that migrate here with their foreign language (yewbetcha!??), foods, (Pierogiues??) seem to get along just as well as any others before them, but I do wish they were as accepting of the existing ethnicities as we are of them. We would never dream of passing laws making their language illegal. Personally, I like the way Minnesotans talk. It's hard to understand, but quaint.

As for firearms, I tend to think that the U.S. Marshall in old Tombstone - Wyatt Earp - had it right: have all visitors check all rifles and pistols with him before going about your business. We've seen how much it costs in lives and taxpayer money when an out-of-control politician like Arpaio goes gets elected. Never before has any county in AZ. had their sheriff be such a self-promoting pompous ass. who is totally political, showing up at every G.O.P. event he can, while dismissing everyday law enforcement issues.

If it weren't for the regular city and state police agency's dedication and hard work, many criminal activities would go uninvestigated and unpunished, as we've seen in the politically charged atmosphere in Arpaio's office.

  • 1 vote
#2.6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:02 AM EST
owlsview

You are obviously a strong opponent to Arpaio with very strong opinions. You are more than welcome to be here, in fact I like hearing opposing viewpoints from fellow Arizonans, it gives my readers a fairer read. This article is not about individuals. Please read a few of the above comments. I seem to be wasting a lot of time repeating myself.

Sun City, Leisure World, Sun Lakes, etc. wouldn't exist if it wasn't for air-conditioning. Technology removed the safety net that our environment provided for us. We no longer have protection against rapid growth.

You make a very good point about respect and acceptance. Most of the country has no clue how for many years we were very accepting of immigrants who came here. They were treated as equals. We worked side by side, raised our families together. It wasn't uncommon at all, especially out on the ranches and farms for white kids to be just as bilingual as the Hispanics.

There is a major difference between then and now. Then we were getting people who were willing to work hard for a better life and more opportunities. Now we are being inundated with those who want to be "given" a better life.

Third generation Arizonan. That certainly qualifies you to speak about our great state. I would suggest that you talk to some other third generationers as well as any fourth or fifth that are still around. Read some of the in state writings from people who lived in the Tombstone area.

The Earp brothers, Wyatt in particular were considered gunmen who rode from town to town being hired by the local city officials to wear a badge and settle disputes. They were considered legal outlaws by many taking sides with city folk and merchants against the ranchers and farmers. Oh, by the way I don't think Wyatt was the Marshall, I was under the impression that his brother was, the Earp brothers and Doc Holliday just rode in to help him.

  • 5 votes
#2.7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:29 AM EST
AZPADDY

owlsview

OK....Deputy sherrif Wyatt Earp. It still is counter to the idea that we in Arizona are rabidly pro-gun. That is more of "The west of the imagination" than factual history.

Also, I have to counter your assertion that today's immigrants "want to be "given" a better life."

That is a sweeping generalization that simply isn't true, and I'm dissapointed you believe that. That kind of statement hardly reflects the opinion of most long time Arizonans I've known. In fact, it reflects the musings of white separatists more than anything else.

As for the federal government, the entire western United state would have taken years longer to populate if it weren't for the federal government leading the way. Your views conveniently ommit tyhe fact that if not for our federal government, we would not enjoy the conveniences we do today.

  • 1 vote
#2.8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:17 PM EST
owlsview

You have your opinion, I have mine on immigration. Call it a wash.

The Federal Government didn't do squat to lead the way for population to come here. Who wanted it to? Federal facilities here in the southwest before the population boom were comprised primarily by military installations and various testing grounds. As the population grew, those facilities began to shut down and take their Federal dollars with them.

It was out of state investors, real estate brokers, time share salesman, retirement community developers that were the main impetus behind our population growth.

Is it always necessary for you to include some kind of negative nomenclature when you say something? "white separatists"? get real, sounds like you are still living and arguing in Texas.

  • 2 votes
#2.9 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:28 PM EST
AZPADDY

owlsview

The Federal Government didn't do squat to lead the way for population to come here.

Two words: Roosevelt Dam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt_Dam

From the link:

The Reclamation Act of 1902 created the United States Reclamation Service whose purpose was to design and construct irrigation projects to aid the settlement of the arid west

  • 1 vote
#2.10 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:43 PM EST
Reply
fstwarrior

I personally love Arizona and New Mexico - where the people can be themselves without the dogmatic DC syndrome of "forcing" others to do your will. Constitutionally? Well, if the feds won't/can't do it, the states are given the authority to do it themselves - little thing called states rights, 'specially in the invasion and protection section.

Thanks owlsview - great post.

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:02 PM EST
owlsview

Good to see you fstwarrior. I believe this issue goes beyond state's rights and straight to our rights as individuals. Our state governments, including Arizona'', are far from being trustworthy themselves.

Federal Government, state government, county government, city government. You know, every level of government has at least one and usually more police agencies at it's disposal. Something everybody actually knows when they stop to think about it.

  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:46 PM EST
Desertzonie

Thanks for the article owlsview. Arizona has it's share of problems but for the most part it's a great place. It's hard to listen to people that want to bash a state whose citizens want to have a bit of freedom. I sure enjoyed my years living in and hiking all over a state with the some of the most beautiful scenery in the USA. You have provided me a nice reminder that I need take off on a road trip back there --- maybe I can shake off my Cali funk.

  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:17 PM EST
owlsview

We are still beautiful, just brace yourself, if it has been awhile our metropolitan areas will shock you with their California like resemblances. If you want to visit some of the remote sites feel free to wear a gun, you probably won't need it, not even in the cities. Now I am not saying that it is uncommon to find a rattlesnake or two right in downtown Phoenix, but I am not making any satirical references to the two-legged type.

  • 4 votes
#5.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:25 PM EST
Desertzonie

Thanks, I think I'll stay out of the valley. The traffic was pretty near as bad as here even when I lived there. It's really funny -- I never felt the need to wear a gun when I was over there, maybe because I knew so many other folks had theirs. Here on the other hand, it gets scary at times but at least it drives me to make sure to keep up with my target practice.

I just sent an email to a lady friend in the Sedona area to let her know that I'll be heading that way soon -- I love those red rocks.

  • 3 votes
#5.2 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:55 PM EST
owlsview

Sedona is a great choice, enjoy. I have always been pretty much the same way when it comes to carrying a gun in public. It has only been the last couple of years that I have begun to feel the need to carry. Things are changing, there is a bad smell in the air. Don't ask me for factual reasons. This is just one of those feelings.

I am a half-breed, half cityboy and half countryboy, I survived a good number of years on the streets of many a big city and have survived this rugged climate, I ain't talking about just the weather either. What I am sensing isn't right for either location.

  • 4 votes
#5.3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:18 PM EST
Reply
AmericaRepublic

the great and wise owl!!...

  • 3 votes
Reply#6 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:12 AM EST
owlsview

Good to see back around AR./

  • 2 votes
#6.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:56 AM EST
AmericaRepublic

Thanks my long time friend..nice article....how's president owl???....crazy time it is with all the elections coming up soon....

  • 3 votes
#6.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:00 AM EST
owlsview

Like Ron Paul, I am hanging in there with all four of my votes. In it till the end.

This is the time to ratchet up the pounding on the keyboard, the talking on the phone and the walking of the streets. Especially for those of us who are independent and centrist. We have no major media to help us get our voices out there. David only had one Goliath to battle, we have two.

Hope your presence is more than temporary, your voice has been missed around here.

  • 3 votes
#6.3 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:50 AM EST
AmericaRepublic

well said....thanks for you words..trying to get back on more....thanks for your article and your wisdom my friend.

  • 3 votes
#6.4 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:08 AM EST
northern girl

Both of you have been strangers lately and that needs to STOP! ;)

I spent a few years in AZ. What I loved the most was the self-reliant mind set that was so wide spread once you got out of Phoenix (ugh!) and to a point, Flagstaff.

  • 4 votes
#6.5 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:27 AM EST
AmericaRepublic

I am trying northern..lol...work has consumed my time...

  • 2 votes
#6.6 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:17 AM EST
Reply
proffi53-1

kinda feel like a fish outa water. Grew up in st.lou which may be called the gateway to the west, but has a parochial, east coast mentality. Grew old in Houston trying to survive enron n several hurricanes, like Rita while in lake charles. Now I'm in the hot bowl of mesa, wishing I could afford to live in rim country. I say fish, cuz I believe in the right to bear arms, and believe that what goes on in a womans' pants, is her biz, not mine. Sheriff Joe will go down, not because of others, but because of himself. Arrogance masked as hubris can do that to a body, and when you foment an investigation and political vendetta against your detractors bad things happen. Thomas is learning about that as we speak. I don't like outa county or city or state money n influence deciding who represents me. Never did, never will. Pearce learned that the hard way. Dont care much for partisan redisrticting, had my fill of that crap with tom delay. Gov brewer learned that the hard way after the recent court smackdown. But I got hopes for Az. We got a chance to keep this state moving forward to help build a more perfect union, without all the entrenched generations of conflicted folks. Slashing single old farts like me with no insurance off the state access program while ponying up money for private prisons and corner cams will undo Brewer, as one of the last few straws she's allowed. Blogo was the tip of the iceberg. But like I said, I got hopes here, and wish us all a little prosperity and happiness along with it. IMHO, n tnx for the seed.

  • 2 votes
Reply#7 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:53 AM EST
owlsview

No good arguments over what you say proffi53-1. Arizona has leaned to the right for so long, that we are having to work extra hard to achieve a sensible balance.

Not all of the things that some of our nuttier personnel do are bad or wrong. Pearce was useful,SB1070 has a lot of support from both sides here in Arizona. Pearce was also a loose cannon that was to full of himself and had to be dispatched. Sometimes you have to work with bad people to achieve your goals. Isn't Obama currently working with AlQueida in Syria? That is what I heard yesterday on the news. We are on the same side of Al Quieda on the issue of deposing their current government. Of course many of us have been under the impression that we were at War with AlQuieda. It must be that strange bedfellow thing.

Proffi53-1, as I mentioned to another poster earlier let us try and avoid using names and individuals as the target of discussion. This is more about the issues than individuals or even the Parties.

  • 4 votes
#7.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:31 AM EST
AZPADDY

owlsview, #7.1

Pearce was useful,SB1070 has a lot of support from both sides here in Arizona

Most people are under the impression that SB 1070 was the doings of recalled sate senator Russell Pearce, but the record shows it was in fact, Kris Kobach and the corporate lobbyist's group A.L.E.C.

http://www.npr.org/2010/10/28/130833741/prison-economics-help-drive-ariz-immigration-law

Russell Pearce was just a handy tool for getting the legislation into law, without having to put it before the voters. I'm glad we have at least one city manager in AZ.- in Benson, AZ. that has integrity. Too bad we don't have more like him.

If you take a look at SB 1070, you quickly realize it does absolutely nothing to address illegal immigration, but everything to get more prisoners in custody for Jan Brewer's lobbyist pals in the private prisons industrty.

    #7.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:54 PM EST
    Reply
    proffi53-1

    One of the best laws in this state is the referendum. It may not be a panacea for all things bad, but can usually be relied on to remind folks up at the statehouse that their biz is OUR biz. They will at times have to serve we the people even if it runs contrary to preconceived notions about why we put them there in the first place. If we don't strive to provide freedom, safety, opportunity, and fairness for the public, we might as well give the bottom half back to mexico, the top half to the navajo, and Hwy 40/66 to the feds!

    • 1 vote
    Reply#8 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:03 AM EST
    owlsview

    Just like most of the country we do have some good government control laws out here, which when properly enforced cuts down on a lot of the mischief of politicians. Our open meeting laws have put a real crimp in the closed door deals market, not only at the capitol but in the small communities as well.

    We are not going to make giant swings to the left. We have witnessed what big moves in party strengths and ideological ideals have done to the country as a whole. Extremism of any-form is not good.

    strive to provide freedom, safety, opportunity, and fairness for the public,

    Isn't that all any American should want from their government?

    • 4 votes
    #8.1 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:43 AM EST
    AZPADDY

    owlsview

    . Our open meeting laws have put a real crimp in the closed door deals market, not only at the capitol but in the small communities as well.

    That statement simply isn't true in the state of AZ. For example: Do you know who the conservative controlled state legislature and governor sold the state capital building to? No?? Neither does anyone else, except Jan Brewer and her conservative cronies, and they aint talkin'.

    That kind of "back room deal" should be, and probably is, against the law, but nary a peep out of the conservatives in state overnment.

    How cozy.

      #8.2 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:00 AM EST
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